Toni- I totally agree with you. Sometimes I can’t even look at bacon and eggs in the morning, and sometimes I can eat them all day. It all depends on what your body is telling you. I also agree and GMO’s are the culprit. This is one of the reasons why I stoped eating corn, soy, and wheat. BTW your link about GMO’s didn’t work. Can you re-post it?

I am very concerned by Matt’s cavalier attitude toward celiac and eating wheat. I was diagnosed with celiac 16 years ago. At that time, it was taught that having celiac, diagnosed or not, and eating gluten-containing foods regularly, lead to a 300% greater chance of developing non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. This is not a pretty way to die. That knowledge is the only thing that has kept me on the gluten-free diet. I do not knowingly eat glutened food and I do not consider myself to be fanatical about my diet. I am eating with respect toward my body and its needs. This is a serious situation.

Celiac seems to be a genetic condition, and so far we have not been able to find a way to turn off those genes. Until we do, people with celiac should abstain from consuming glutened food if they value their health.

By the way, both wheat and dairy contain opioids. Perhaps this is what causes them to be “addictive.”

Jane

After a year on paleo I’ve dropped 60lbs and I’ve also just finished my first 5k where I placed 10th in my age group. I finally have my life back after having ruptured two disks in my lower back.

Sorry Matt, I’m sticking with paleo because it gives results, not so I can be a member of some social scene. Furthermore, if social groups where the issue we’d all still be on Weight Watchers.

Thought provoking yet very dangerous information.

Gluten and grains are a serious issue and some people may not be able to add back into their diet.

Insulin is primarily produced by carbohydrate, some proteins and to say more carbohydrate will cause less insulin secretion is really ignoring foundational biochemistry.

A peleo diet is a flexible diet primarily focusing on food quality and ignoring gut irritating foods. Macro nutrients like carbs can be adjusted. There is also a strong focus on sleep and managing stress and exercise. I feel Mr. Stone misrepresented paleo and his some of his comments were absolutely dangerous in regards to adding process food back into someones diet and that they can have a health benefit.

Mr. Stone in my opinion is try to do exactly what his branding says, be just 180 degrees opposed to what everyone else in this community is saying. This is OK because most people in the conventional health field are this way. But I personally feel this is more about him drawing attention, then actually presenting accurate information.

Thought provoking yet very dangerous information.

Gluten and grains are a serious issue and some people may not be able to add back into their diet.

Insulin is primarily produced by carbohydrate, some proteins and to say more carbohydrate will cause less insulin secretion is really ignoring foundational biochemistry.

Dan –

It would take quite a bit of time and ink to answer the bulk of your last post regarding the nutritional aspects that Matt has been known to espouse.

The primary idea is not irresponsibility, but rather that restrictive eating in any form tends to foster a negative relationship with food, which can be far more damaging to the person than anything the actual food is doing. Books like “Intuitive Eating” by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch help to explain the point better than I can.

I would also though like to deal with the idea–which appeared toward the end of your post–that selling products is somehow inherently wrong or immoral.

Matt devotes his life, time and energy to immersing himself in these topics. What he does has an enormous social value. Do you really believe that someone who has proven through countless testimonials that their life’s work has tremendous social value shouldn’t be paid in society’s primary medium of value exchange–money?

Thanks to everyone who commented. I can definitely skip this presentation, and use my time more wisely.

Guys, I’ve got to interject once more after doing a little poking around on Matt’s site. His sometimes conflicting POV is obviously great for all of the reasons that Ben and others have pointed out; keeps us thinking, keeps us questioning.

HOWEVER, I’m sorry, I just can’t behind some of his recommendations including the idea that, sure, wheat can be bad for some people, but for others a diet of mostly pizza and beer works just fine (thank you, PK, for posting the Wheat Belly link).

I don’t want to get to ranty here, so I’ll keep this short: Given that Paleo MAY no be the ideal lifestyle for some – heck, even anyone – how weak have we become to advocate that, even if we can be “healthy” eating neolithic foods, people are just as well indulging in crap as they are eating restrictive diets. In other words, if you find it so freaking hard to give up beer and pizza, cry me a river. This has nothing to do with being healthy, it has to do with people being stubborn, coddled, easily gratified, and blinded by comfort. So to say that we can all relax and eat crap so we can continue to keep doing what we’ve always done is just ludacris to me.

I’m sorry, I don’t feel like I’m able to articulate this well… I just feel like Matt’s message is completely conflicting in the simple fact that he is calling for a lack of conventional thought and to be ever questioning, yet he simultaneously implies that doing “normal” things like consuming beer and pizza are easier to sustain than a restricting diet. So how is fitting into convention and taking the easy, relaxing way out fit in to this idea of consistent non-conformity? Sure, let’s not jump to demonize pizza. But why defend it just because it’s common? Isn’t that what Matt says is why Paleo is dangerous, because the idea is becoming common place? Show me a study that can defend the health merits of beer and pizza. Show me anecdotal evidence. For pete’s sake, I spent the majority of my life eating pizza, pasta, ice cream, cake, cookies, etc. and, to the anecdotal eye (and probably to scientific study), I was a model of leanness, health, and vibrancy. But I felt like shit. And when I try to eat that crap now, I feel worse.

I wouldn’t even be so miffed about this point were Matt just “another blogger,” but, as Ben and others have pointed out, his stance is just as valid as anyone with official “credentials” because of his tireless research and ever-questioning attitude. And this stance is purported to have answers for us. Plus (major case in point), he is fitting into convention by trying to sell is products. And that there is biggest hypocrisy to me.

@Charles

“Matt thinks he knows too much but obviously knows nothing, that pisses him off?”

Classic abusive ad hominem attack

“Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I scrolled down this page to put in my two cents worth but decided to comment instead on the disappointing rant by Lee (see above). Come on Lee, you write, “Matt thinks he knows too much but obviously knows nothing, that pisses him off?” Lee’s obvious “devotion” to his “diet” has clouded his brain and proves Matt’s main point. Matt’s one of the more brilliant health researchers out there and contrary to our blind friend, Lee, offers excellent advice on nutrition and health through his blog.

Matt Stone of 180 degree health, independent health researcher is ironically the biggest orthorexic guru out there. He will say anything to be a contrary fairy. He thinks he knows too much but obviously knows nothing, that pisses him off…all he wants to do is find a simple magic bullet to sell. He will never find it. Don’t follow Paleo dogma or vegan dogma, just follow Matts, he needs more blog comments to his credentials. If “boosting” the metabolism by eating lots of junk food turned humans into fighting lean animals, why is it that all of the worlds obese are following Matts program? It’s a joke.

I’m really enjoying the Summit! Looking forward to more!
I Very much enjoyed listening to Matt Stone’s contrary view – I’m so used to hearing about why an ancestral approach to nutrition is so good for us that it’s a charming change to hear the opposite views.
And now that I’ve heard some of them from Mr. Stone, I’m more confident than ever that the paleolithic nutrition movement has got scientific validity.
For example:
My limited understanding of the science behind ‘why’ paleo seems to work (thanks to Matt Lalonde’s very objective research) allowed me to listen critically when Mr. Stone talks about gluten sensitivity: “It’s not going to kill you”, even if you do have gluten issues.
Okay, it may not kill us outright, but it may lead to general systemic inflammation, trigger auto-immune issues, difficulty in losing weight, etc. As far as I understand it, this is all supported by the science. So why eat it if it will possibly do those things? It’s not because our ancient ancestors didn’t eat it – it’s because it could mess us up!
I have learned about the science behind paleo online, through self-directed research, and thinking critically, and listening to my body as I tried incorporating the lifestyle recommendations. The information is available that supports these things, from a variety of sources. So it was interesting to hear arguments apparently without similar science behind them. Of course, I’m still learning…
I do like the idea that there is no ‘one size fits all’ dietary prescription, in the same way that there is no single exercise prescription that suits everyone. Not all of us can lift the same amount of weight – what is too heavy for one person will not be heavy enough for another to improve strength. But generally, it is a good guideline to lift heavy things, for the strength benefits, bone density improvements, etc.
So generally, paleo is a good guideline for us to start looking at food quality and the industry, our modern habits, and why our current culture of convenience may be hurting us. The paleo lifestyle also incorporates other factors than simply food – getting outside, proper activity patterns, high intensity intermittent movement, etc. This is something that seems to be lacking in other dietary perspectives. I don’t believe any of these lifestyle facets are separable from the efficacy of the nutritional backbone of our lives. We are most healthy when we have all the parts of the whole coming together harmoniously.
Keep the learning going! Thanks for the Summit, Sean!

Dan -

My responses were intended to democratize the discussion, in regards to whether Matt’s information should be accepted as readily as someone who has a medical degree. Or to point out simply that a lot of paleo information is accepted without requiring medical credentials.

I agree with you. No reason to trust Matt any more than any one else. Also no reason not to.

Above all, I am intending to promote a “beginner’s mind” (to borrow a Zen concept) with regards to health information. I am not trying to convince any one to believe one person or source of information over against another.

As I’ve researched, things have only become more complex in my mind. New vistas open up the more you look at all the information. Only the beginner’s mind will help you to continuously synthesize the information without becoming rigid, inflexible or dogmatic, which tends to be the death of real learning.

Yep, Matt doesn’t have any medical or nutritional degree. You know what I think .. who cares? Matt has been researching health and working with people to overcome their health issues and nutritional phobias for years. He probably has more experience working with people and listening to their feedback than most other major health bloggers out there. Sporting a fancy degree doesn’t equate to real world experience and may actually hold someone back from being open to alternative methods of regaining health.

I still agree with a lot of the paleo principles but I do appreciate Matt’s different view points. They really help you to stop and think and realize that you don’t actually need to be so damn restrictive and picky about health and nutrition. That may very well be what’s holding you back in the first place.

So I like his message of “think for your self and take charge, look at the data, listen to your body, and don’t be dogmatic”.

Hurray!

But then I took a quick look at his site. I wondered what he thought of works like “Wheat Belly”, which aren’t paleo per se, but raise issues about Wheat sensitivity and changes to wheat trying to increase yield, what impacts they’d have.

So here’s his post on it, and much to my dismay, he’s completely dogmatic and dismissive about the book. I see no evidence he even read it.

Based on that, I’m probably inclined to say he’s full of it, but I’ll explore some more.

http://180degreehealth.com/2011/10/wheat-belly

I’m intrigued by his case study, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

I agree this presenter has no verifiable education in the field of Endocrinology or Immunology or…well, any medical field. Although I do not think that is the only way that someone can be knowledgeable, he hangs his entire theory on one case where the woman improved her blood work numbers but retained the 60 pound weight surplus. What was more disturbing was his response that he had trouble helping people lose body fat using his theory (he talks like he has patients, but is not a doctor) and didn’t really know how to do it. I am going to try very hard to completely purge his presentation from my brain as it is the most absurd thing in the paleo/non-paleo world I have ever heard. Just my opinion.

Sean, your are awesome man!! While I don’t agree with what Matt thinks about Paleo, he makes people think, and is in the game for the right reasons. There is no one size fits all for everyone. Just eating real food is the key, some do better than others and some people’s tolerances are different. I wrote this in my blog post a month ago.

The only person who can be the Expert of you, IS YOU!! All the advice that anyone gives you must be questioned and tried out on you, by you, in order to make an informed decision to decide if that was RIGHT or WRONG for YOU!! No special schooling is necessary, you don’t need a college degree or a medical degree, or a nutritional degree to eat real food and see if it works or not. Self experimentation is the only way to truly know what works FOR YOU!!

Manny, well put. The only thing that I would say can be taken away from this is that you shouldn’t just trust strict Paleo from one particular person. You need to listen to your body and how its reacting to what you are eating and other lifestyle factors. Its not a one size fits all lifestyle, though folks that have read enough and have looked at all of the sources of Paleo should know this already.

I think most of us in the Paleo community would say that Paleo is a lifestyle, not a diet. I like Dan’s comment that “Paleo is an awakening that humans are not broken”. Matt Stone offers alot of his “opinion” but that’s about it. For me, one of the satisfying aspects of Paleo is the hardcore scientific evidence that backs it up. This presentation has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese. Entertaining? Maybe. Helpful? Not at all. If the purpose was to present an intelligent and compelling opposing view, I would say to that end, it failed. Just sounds like another “diet” blogger spewing off their opinion, and I just can’t see how “30,000″ comments on a blog constitutes an expert – this is the problem with the Health and Wellness trend on the internet – too many people with a loud voice are being touted as experts, and it is making it increasingly difficult for the general public to get the right information. We have lived for the past 50 years with incorrect data from the 7 Countries Study (and the mess that Ancel Keys left us in) that we are only now realizing has had major ramifications on the health of our society – at what point are we going to put a stop to the constant flow of disinformation??

I’m new-ish to the paleo scene. I’m no expert, though it seems this presentation is quite vague. I’m not sure if Matt is a doctor, but he was talking as though he has patients who ate paleo-like and ran into problems.

I really enjoy hearing challenging ideas. However, this was a little too vague for my liking. I did notice that Mr. Stone is in the business of selling diet books too.

In short, paleo is flawed, 180 Degree Health is perfect =)

Joanna, I had the very same thought about his hypocrisy and called him out on it on his website.

This is from a post I did on my paleo email list after listening to Mr. Stone’s presentation:

Though he is obviously very well versed and is very intelligent, Mr. Stone is apparently not a doctor, scientist, professional researcher, dietitian, nutritionist, etc. He’s another blogger, for better or worse.

In his summit presentation, he makes some great points about dogmatic thinking and reasoning and how any diet that starts with good results may not stay that way in the long term. In actuality, it seems that his biggest issue with paleo is simply that paleo subscribers tend to become overly religious and pious about their lifestyle changes (something I’m guilty of, for sure) and thusly tend to become blinded to problems that arise when they refuse to reflect and question what their bodies are telling them what is really best for them.

This is an idea that I can relate to (that any diet may show almost immediate positive effects, but that continuing doing the same thing that got us healthy can make us sick again in other ways if it’s not sustainable). For instance, I felt great getting off processed sugars and grains, but I was losing more weight than was obviously healthy for my body type; I should not be eating a low-carb diet. The more fruits and starches I add back in, the better I feel and perform. I am still wary of eating too many carbs and I have to be careful not to psyche myself out of doing what’s best for me.

However, Mr. Stone makes the argument that there is no need to restrict pretty much anything, that refined foods can be fine in our diets as long as we get our metabolisms in order. His big thing seems to be that metabolism dysfunction is the root cause of the maladies that are so prevalent in our modern world. However, at least in his presentation, he doesn’t give much insight into how to fix our metabolisms other than that one diet prescription that works for one person may not work at all for the next person.

Though I appreciate the focus on balance and minimal-restriction, for the life of me, I just can’t get behind the argument that eating modern crap can be part of a healthy sustainable diet.

Mr. Stone goes into the idea that our genes are very adaptable. And that is definitely something I’ve been contemplating: if we keep eating processed foods, won’t we someday become evolutionary adapted to those things just as humans became adapted to omnivorous foods “back in the day?”

Yet, if we aren’t adapted by now, why continue to bombard our systems with this stuff in the hopes that future generations will be better off?

Also, Mr. Stone disagrees with the paleo “gurus” that insulin resistance is caused by high carb intake. Yet, he does not really go into what causes the egregious spike of the myriad of current health issues other than metabolic derangement, but how do we get metabolically deranged in the first place? Eating processed crap?

He also talks about how weight is not necessarily bad for us, that we need to focus more on metabolic balance; we can still be healthy and obese, he says. But he doesn’t regard the fact that the human body was never meant to be obese. He talks about weight being mostly an aesthetic issue; I don’t know if I can even distantly agree with that. This makes me think of Wall-E, where all humans in the future, sedentary and lazy, are naturally obese. Is this what Mr. Stone is advocating for? It seems that we’re headed that way as a species.

In the end, I think the biggest take away is just that we need to listen to our own bodies and only take everyone else’s suggestions as seriously as they can improve our knowledge of how to best help ourselves.

Paleo is to me, more than anything, an awakening that humans are not broken and that we don’t need anything but what we individually need, not what anyone else says we should need.

I’m going to add Mr. Stone’s blog to my daily feed, if only a reminder to keep my self-reflection in check and to not get too caught up in any one way of thinking.

If anyone else happens to catch Mr. Stone’s presentation today, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts about it.

Dan

Thanks for the fresh perspective!